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Bojo The Mighty
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Posted - 2014.03.24 22:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Combat Rifle 1.8 DPS: 540 Flat
Shield DPS (-5%) 513
Armor DPS (+10%): 594
20 shots per second, and just under 7 trigger pulls to the second.
Assault Rifle 1.8 DPS: 375 Flat
Shield DPS (+10%): 412.5
Armor DPS (-10%): 337.5
Shield DPS Proficiency 5: 474.375
Scrambler Rifle 1.8 DPS: 764.7 Flat (and Unrealistic)
Armor DPS (-20%): 611.8
Shield DPS (+20%): 917.64
All Require the maximum 12 shots in just over a second which is very difficult to tap that fast.
Scrambler DPS @ the 7 pulls to the second:
DPS Flat: 455
DPS Armor: 364
DPS Shields: 546
Rail Rifle 1.8 DPS: 361.5 Flat
Armor DPS (+10%): 397.7
Shield DPS (-10%): 325.35
I have tried the combat rifle and am dismayed at the lack of cons to the weapon. In 1.8 CCP made it appear as if Combat was getting nerfed harder than the rest of the weapons. 1.8 statistically speaking is still the domain of the combat rifle. As you can see it suffers less of a penalty than an AR but just as much buff.
It gives 3 shots to the pull, no heat, highest RoF, least shield penalty available (-5%), on par for armor buff with rail rifle (+10%).
While the ScR provides the highest theoretical DPS yields, you require a turbo controller basically and you will overheat while the combat rifle can output it's tremendous DPS with consistency.
Combat Rifle deals a higher DPS to shields than an AR and the Combat Rifle does "poorly" against shields while the AR does best against shields. Only the scrambler rifle can out compete it and even then it has consistency issues and requires an Amarr Assault for the best of results. You can literally get ambushed by an AR, turn around and kill them faster with a Combat Rifle.
Minmatar Combat Rifle does not require you to use a Minmatar suit which have the lowest HP. If purely the lowest HP suit got the highest DPS weapon maybe it would be balanced. Big maybe.
Quite plainly anyone who does not drop the two mill into Combat Rifles in 1.8 would be crazy.
Now a big argument for those who use the weapon is that "It's only OP because a majority of the players Armor tank"
Armor Tanking has the highest HP ceiling meaning you should last the longest under direct fire pretty much speaking but you are slowed down meaning that you are an easier target to begin with. The Combat Rifle is dealing nearly 600 armor damage a second and once armor is gone you are gone. An AR has as much shield bias as the combat rifle has armor bias but even it is out competed by the Combat Rifle against shields and the Combat Rifle is 5% gimped to shields.
This is nonsense. Assault Rifle and Rail Rifle are nonfactors in 1.8 and to counter the combat rifle you will need to dual tank because it performs so well against both and you will need to be an Amarr Assault with an ScR and a turbo controller or a headshot king. The stipulations required to run that set up are 10 fold greater than the CR.
This is nonsense.
I will close the vent now.
EDIT: Sources other than in-game info:
http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/11/weapons-of-uprising-1.7/ for damage profiles
http://dust514.com/news/blog/2014/03/expanding-the-arsenal-with-uprising-1.8/ for 1.8 damage
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
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3615
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Posted - 2014.03.24 22:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:I would be happy if they just made it +5/-5 instead of the +5/-10 BS it is now.
There is no reason for it to be the way it is now.
+10/-5 BS yeah but even then it's still out DPS'ing an AR against shields, even the AR with proficiency 5 (this is all 1.8 talk BTW)
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
3617
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Posted - 2014.03.24 22:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Emperor1349 wrote:How much DPS if you miss a burst? Same as SCR if you miss a shot or two what's the stats look like vs fully auto. You guys got your ******** long TTK back, give it a rest.
That argument exists for every weapon. I said statistically speaking.
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
3617
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Posted - 2014.03.24 22:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
JIMvc2 wrote:CR being King, I call that Bull. My Breach Assault rifle does more damage and Im glad ccp didnt touch those. AS >>>>>>> CR.
They did nerf the Breach Assault rifle in 1.8 if you did not see
I love the Breach Assault Rifle I will forever love it and use it but you are incorrect. CR will still be king.
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Bojo The Mighty
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Posted - 2014.03.24 23:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Orin the Freak wrote:Bojo, your numbers may be correct, on paper.
But in real-world application, they are pretty far off. for one, you have to consider not every shot is going to land. One missed shot takes up 3x the ammunition the scrambler or RR does. Furthermore, the CR has less optimal range than the others, so unless you're using a fast, stealthy suit to close gaps, you're going to have to rely on cover a lot more.
Not every shot is going to land on the AR either and it has less DPS. It also has less range than CR. I did put a "statistically speaking" disclaimer at top
Quote:
Then there's the huge factor you are missing, which is trigger pull lag. The CR currently has a horrible input lag (I assume it's tied to server lag) where trigger pulls are anything but reliable. Sometimes it takes what seems like forever in between bursts, and other times it's near-instantaneous. You are only calculating the later, and disregarding the former.
That's not lag that's your lack of timing. If you pull the trigger before shots are finished then it will not fire the next burst. That's user fault not server. Even if you hear the CR as being finished. I have come across many people who have been able to time their shots perfectly and put me down faster than a second shields included.
Quote:
The combat rifle could still be a contender, that is TBD. But it will NOT be as powerful as the RR, or ScR. I personally don't think DPS is something that should be compared in DUST, seeing as how it's almost never 100% dealt, due to misses, and extenuating circumstances.
Ohhh yes it will. ScR is only overtly powerful on the Amarr Assault and that is a borderline OP discussion but you have to wear the suit to get the results. As you can see, I matched the results of how many trigger pulls per second are required by both ScR and CR and you need a seriously quick finger to beat out the CR. RR is honestly getting the best most balanced nerf in my opinion, I do not believe it will be OP in 1.8 and that's coming from me, I hate them to death because they put my BrAR to shame.
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Bojo The Mighty
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Posted - 2014.03.24 23:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Master Smurf wrote:Well his statement about the lag is based on experience.
Any CR user knows what he is talking about.
On the OP - CR got the biggest nerf and you still want more??? or just stating CR (and RR and ScR) will be king
Dude WTF more do you want!?
I sat there a spouted nothing that can be disputed, they are numerical values. I said "It may appear that CR got nerfed harder" but it's still hands down the only option on the table all others considered.
It does -5% to shields and +10% to armor? That's less penalty than an RR yet the same armor +%? It has highest Accuracy rating of all the rifles at any tier.
You can't balance on lag either I've said that about speed tanking too.
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Bojo The Mighty
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3621
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Posted - 2014.03.24 23:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Joel II X wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:I would be happy if they just made it +5/-5 instead of the +5/-10 BS it is now.
There is no reason for it to be the way it is now. I think it should be -20 shields +20 armor to match the ScR, but that's just me. Well, we already have explosive weapons for that.
Was about to say.....
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
3621
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Posted - 2014.03.24 23:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:There's a distinction between QQ and actually being able to cite and prove something.
Also between people who support balance and people who support whatever gear they sport.
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Bojo The Mighty
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Posted - 2014.03.24 23:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Master Smurf wrote:
What is the distinction - That the Minmatar have a good weapon to pair with their underpowerd suits ???
That CR will suffer agaisnt ScR and RR at range damage wise as well as aiming wise because it jumps much more than the other two?
Its just disheartening to seemingly hear every Gallente user cry about every slight they have while not acknowledging things in their favour.
Instead of trying to get a further CR nerf, campaign for an AR buff.
Wow, you mind telling me since when a Combat Rifle was forced to be used on a Minmatar Suit?
It's just disheartening to seemingly hear every Combat Rifle user turn a blind eye to the truth and find scapegoats.
Campaign for an AR buff? That would defeat the purpose of the lowered TTK because I would campaign for the lowest range weapon to have the highest DPS so that an AR would out DPS a Combat Rifle like it should.
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Bojo The Mighty
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Posted - 2014.03.24 23:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Master Smurf wrote:Come on Bojo - its not forced on but its made for
Now if you want to propose a lower RoF and a bonus to Min Assaults then....
No
I didn't propose anything in this thread, if you read it that is
I just laid the facts on the line
EDIT: You do not have my favor, only those who do are allowed to call me informally as Bojo. All others must refer to me by my full title.
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Bojo The Mighty
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3626
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Posted - 2014.03.25 00:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:JIMvc2 wrote:CR being King, I call that Bull. My Breach Assault rifle does more damage and Im glad ccp didnt touch those. AS >>>>>>> CR. They did nerf the Breach Assault rifle in 1.8 if you did not see I love the Breach Assault Rifle I will forever love it and use it but you are incorrect. CR will still be king. Enjoy your 330 DPS from a prototype weapon. I understand packing an underdog weapon but the Breach is just too weak. At least run the Tac or Burst AR.
I run them all!
Also for some reason I go 14/2 with it/ high KDR consistent. I can't explain it it's just easier to use to me.
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Bojo The Mighty
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Posted - 2014.03.25 00:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
bamboo x wrote:Until you round a corner with your CR and get destroyed by an Amarr or Caldari sentinel. Then you won't be king of anything. 
With passive Scan I don't round corners unwittingly!
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Bojo The Mighty
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Posted - 2014.03.25 00:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:
Proof that DPS isn't everything? I used up some from my inventory a few weeks ago. Switching to it from CR just accentuated the difference in damage capability. I did find the Tac fun to run with again, but it always was a favorite of mine.
Yes, I do not believe DPS is everything.....
But the Combat Rifle has the best Accuracy rating......(seriously check it out) 59.02
I've been running Breach and Tac consistently over these last weeks and the Breach is just better than the TAC because of the hip fire. The Hip fire on a breach lets you strafe and shoot with amazing accuracy at forty meters out with little miss.
All you see is a dancing Gal Scout many meters off humiliating you with the least used weapon on the field perhaps.
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Bojo The Mighty
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3630
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Posted - 2014.03.25 00:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Marc Rime wrote:So the plasma rifle has, what, 3-4% higher dps than the rail rifle now. Except that armour values, against which rails deal more damage, are generally higher than shield values... Guess they're more or less balanced, or would be, if they had the the same engagement range.
One could say that yes. With numbers as close as they are though, between the RR and AR it will require some field testing. But with the gap between CR and other weapons it's not even necessary unless there is an unspoken Accuracy nerf.
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